I should begin by noting that while I intend this post to be able to stand on its own, it doesn’t exist in isolation; it’s part of my response to a couple of questions Erin posed me in the comments on this post on her blog, and to the overall discussion. In order to keep my comment there reasonably short, I thought it best to offer some of my thoughts here.What sparked my original contribution there was this comment:
if the rules and standards we live by are God’s, then it would have to be true that love is the measuring stick for everything . . . including this ever elusive “holiness”. And maybe we can’t help but fly once we grasp the awesomeness of God’s love.
The last line there I agree with wholeheartedly—indeed, I think that’s a critically important truth for the church to grasp—and I regret not having said so earlier; but I raised the following objection to the first statement:
I would say that God is the measuring stick for everything. Yes, God is love, but God is not reducible to love—God is light without darkness, God is perfect good without flaw, God is life without death, God is the source of all good things . . . we have to be careful not to pick just one biblical affirmation about God, even one of the key ones (like “God is love”), and lose sight of the others; doing that makes it easier for us to reduce our view of God to the size of our definitions.
Now, it’s easy to say that, but (as Erin pointed out), what does that look like, and how do we do that? For that matter, since we already know what love is, what’s the problem with just collapsing it down and using love as our measuring stick? Ironically, however, that’s precisely the problem: we already know what love is—or rather, we think we do. The reason we need to “grasp the awesomeness of God’s love” is that, most of the time, we don’t, even though we have been grasped by it; most of the time, for most of us, our understanding of love doesn’t really get all that far beyond the one we’ve learned from the world, and the world’s idea of love is adulterated. It’s weak tea beside the real thing, nowhere near deep enough, high enough, strong enough, alive enough, selfless enough, committed enough . . . any of it. This is why I would argue that we cannot simplify our view of God even to “God is love,” because when we say that by itself, we tend to shrink God down to our understanding of love. We need to hold on to all those other affirmations, not just because they’re all true, but because collectively, they reinforce each other; when we say that “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all,” it reminds us that when we say “God is love,” his love is a vastly greater thing than ours. Our love is too often sentimental, too often weak, too often prone to settle for comfortable half-truths and affirmations; we shrink back from challenging and confronting people, even when that would be the loving thing to do, perhaps because our love just isn’t strong enough to move us to do so, or perhaps because we don’t know how to do so as an act of love rather than as an act of anger driven by fear or hurt. We can’t really understand how a loving God could hate our sin as an act of love, and so either we keep our idea of love and soft-pedal the whole idea of sin, or else we keep the idea of sin and become loveless and merciless in judgment, because our understanding of love is too small. Because, as J. B. Phillips said, our God is too small. The problem underlying all this is that in logical terms, there is very little we can positively know about God; most of our affirmations about God are negative—which is to say, they take the form of “God is not this,” and “God is not that.” We can say, for instance, that God is eternal—that he is not bound by time as we know it—but we can’t say very much about what that means. Even some of the positive affirmations we find in Scripture work this way. “God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all.” We know from this that “God is light” means that there is no darkness in God—no shameful thing hidden in secret, no dark motives, no shadow of any evil desires, nothing of that sort—but speaking positively, what does it mean? Does it mean that the speed of God is 186,000 miles per second, or that he can be refracted by a prism? Clearly, the idea is absurd. But what it does mean that God is light is mostly beyond our grasp; we simply affirm that there is no darkness in him, and hang on to that. We run into similar problems trying to grasp everything the Bible says about God. We can understand that his life is undying, and that he gives us as his children undying life; we can even understand that his life is of a different quality from ours. But what that difference is, is much harder to grasp; we seek as Christians to live into that, to have his life more and more come alive in us, but we cannot define it, we can only experience it. It’s the same way, really, with his love. We can’t use it as a measuring stick, because a measuring stick is something we can pick up and hold and manipulate; it’s something which is useful precisely because we know its limits. We don’t know the limits of the love of God—if the cross should teach us anything at all (beyond that “God so loved the world that he sent his only Son so that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life”), it should be that. We cannot hold it—rather, it holds us; and it is far too great a thing for us to manipulate. So, then, the question: “If we can’t measure things by Love, how would you measure things by God?” To which my rather perverse answer: we can’t. To say that God is our measuring stick is to say that we have given up measuring. It doesn’t mean there are no measurements; it simply means that we don’t make them, and we don’t determine them. We simply follow where he leads. That’s what defines us as Christians—not where we’re standing right now, or what we have right or what we have wrong, or what rules we follow and what rules we don’t, or any of that; what defines us is which way we’re moving. Christians are those who, however imperfectly and however confusedly, are on the road together behind Jesus, following him in his mission in this world. This is how we know God: not by affirming certain things or upholding certain rules, though some affirmations and rules are important in helping keep us going the right direction, but by following him. We know him as we know anyone: in relationship. And this is how we measure things by God: do they truly contribute to our following him, and to others’ doing the same? Which is to say, do they make us more like him? Or less? Because the way we know we’re truly following Jesus is that we’re becoming more like him, and thus doing the work he did: feeding the hungry; caring for the sick; welcoming the outsider; defending the oppressed; lifting up the downtrodden; loving the unlovable; breaking down the barriers between race and class and gender; and, when the opportunity arises, speaking the truth so clearly and unflinchingly that people want to kill us for it.
Wow Rob, thanks so much. I realized they were big questions, thanks for taking the time.
I don’t argue or negate anything you have said, and I especially like this part:
“That’s what defines us as Christians—not where we’re standing right now, or what we have right or what we have wrong, or what rules we follow and what rules we don’t, or any of that; what defines us is which way we’re moving. Christians are those who, however imperfectly and however confusedly, are on the road together behind Jesus, following him in his mission in this world.”
All the things you have mentioned that “God is” are absolutely true and I agree that we really have no ability to understand the love for us that is God’s love. I do try to hold to the truth that while God is so infinitely larger than anything I imagine about Him, He did tend to come to us in the lowest common denominator because He knew that was what it would take for us to even begin to grasp Him. So I can say He already knows how unable I am to understand the measure of His love, or anything about Him, for that matter.
I think my point was this, and maybe I didn’t elaborate enough…but it’s my view that if something is NOT loving, even in our imperfect understanding of it, it’s NOT God. This isn’t for the purpose of collapsing Him down to that, but a way to measure how we humans treat each other. I can’t speak for Donna, but I think I know her well enough to say she was probably pointing at this same idea with her comments on my post. I’ll encourage her to come over here and share more, too.
Now maybe because our understanding of God is so limited that some things of God might not seem loving to us…but I still have to embrace this as my greatest command: Love God, Love others. Not to say I make anything but a shabby, unkempt, filthy, human go at it, but I try.
As well, and maybe the primary reason for my position on this is how I’ve been through the ringer with religion that was decidedly NOT loving. While I make no apologies for this, I do also find I must oversimplify God at this point in my journey in order to keep the faith at all. A day may come when I am willing and able to go further, but this is where I’m at for now. However, I could be wrong.
Forgive my long comment, I rambled on longer than I intended.
No need to apologize–good points, and straight out of 1 John (“Anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love”) and, of course, Jesus (“Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. This is the first and greatest commandment. And a second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself”), so it’s not as if I’m presumptuous enough to disagree. 🙂 In a lot of ways, I think the danger isn’t so much in oversimplifying God–I don’t know that any of us ever get to the point where we don’t have God in some sort of box–but in doing it without realizing we’re doing it. If that makes any sense at all . . .
And I hope, btw, that you don’t think I was down on you, or Donna, or anyone else (or conversely, that I have some sort of high opinion of myself here); nothing could be further from the truth.
Not at all, Rob. Your comments make me stop and think, that’s all.
I hope I always know my box isn’t better than anyone else’s box…in the sense that I don’t know more than anyone else. My box might be better for me, but that doesn’t mean it’s better.
Thanks. And I would say, I do think you know more than a lot of people do. I wouldn’t say you know more than anyone else, nor do I; but what you’re learning really does mean something.
Thanks Rob. That means a lot.
Hello Rob,
I came over from Erin’s site. Read what you have put here. Many things we agree on, others, well???
“God is light, and in him is no darkness at all,”
This post here would shake that up a bit.
God box, someone else is using that term too. Nice to see.
If interested, please join in the debate. We LOVE having knowledgable decscenters in the group that are willing to talk on a civil level, and make points that are difficult if not imposible to refute. That is how we grow.
So if interested, the primer for the converstion is here. It is carried on in the above link. Hope to see you there.
Not really, actually; but then, I’m Reformed, so I don’t really have any problem accepting Isaiah 45:7. Thanks for the link–if I get a little time and a few free brainwaves, I’ll post a few comments over there.
Blessings.